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Punished For Asking Questions

 

Today I was thinking that the two most threatening words in the English language are "why" and "not".

I was thinking of this when thinking about the killings in Paris - ie the Charlie Hedbo related killings. I was thinking what if a child was told that you cannot make an image of their "god" and the child said "why not?"

Or if the child was told, you have to obey your parents, and the child said, "why?"

So then I thought of this idea of being punsished for asking questions and I searched it and I found this page from a forum....

I have a note at the bottom of the page.

S.Hein

 

from www.ex-christian.net forum

 


Were You Ever Punished For Asking Questions?
Started by R. S. Martin , Nov 28 2006 03:51 PM




25 replies to this topic
#1 R. S. Martin

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 03:51 PM
Sometimes it seems like I was purposely kept in the dark, blind-folded, and every time I tried peeking around the blind-fold I'd get clobbered over the head until I just gave up and submitted again. This was not physically but emotionally and intellectually. It feels so hopeless when I'm not allowed to understand what is happening to me and to know why they are doing it, but I'm forced to submit and obey. I get condemned if I don't.

It feels like maybe I did something to deserve it, such as being too stupid to deserve answers. Or maybe I was too nosey. I tried really, really hard not to ask things that weren't my business. But it seems it was more that I was too stupid (in their minds) than too nosey. Asking questions about the things I don't know seems a logical approach to learning. It made no sense that I got punished so severely for asking.

But my mother hated, Hated, HATED my questions. She HATED them with a vengeance. I was not allowed to understand. However, I was forced to obey, not accepting the religion was not an option if I wanted them to like me even a tiny little bit. In other words, I was forced to lie, to say "I believe" things that did not make sense to me so it was impossible to believe. But I had to do it anyway. I had to lie so they would like me. I think something died inside of me and it's just starting to come alive again.

I'm sorry if I talk too much about these things. It seems the only way to heal is to talk about them over and over. I'm not even trying for their love anymore. All I'm trying for is to heal and become a whole person like I was before these troubles started.

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#2 Dave

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Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :None what so ever !

Posted 28 November 2006 - 05:26 PM
I was kicked out of catholic school, in the second grade, for asking questions. Even then I was an Atheist and didn't believe any of the stories they were trying to force on me.

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#3 truth

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Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :Yes...at least I think so most days

Posted 28 November 2006 - 05:35 PM
RubySera,

I am sorry you were treated so badly. I was always given the token answer and for the most part this satisfied me, I mean if my family and pastors were saying this was so it must be right..right..NOT..

Am glad you found your way out, and from what I was taught also asking questions were good.


And Dave, what did you parents say or do when you got kicked out of catholic school at such a young age? For asking questions? Wow. I am so glad I managed to escape going to religious school.

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#4 Piprus

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Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :No, if I need one I'll make one up

Posted 28 November 2006 - 06:20 PM
I cannot ever recall either of my parents saying something like "you ask too many questions".

In regard to issues that were religious or spiritual, questioning was encouraged. But when it came to issues of routine, everyday tasks or chores, any response to questioning was often met with "because I said so". I came to just regard that as parenting, and expecting a child to follow everyday expectations, and doing what I was told.

In the end, I think things came into balance.

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#5 I Broke Free

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Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :What a silly question. Why, have you seen any?

Posted 28 November 2006 - 06:32 PM
I know where you are coming from Ruby, at least to some extent.

While my mother was not big on attending church, she knew everything about the bible and how to interpret every part of it; a pretty good accomplishment for someone I never actually saw reading the damned thing.

My mother HATED it when I would question her beliefs and try to interject a different perspective. As far as she was concerned it was her job to make my brain an exact copy of hers, any deviation meant that she had failed somehow. To her dying day I put on fake mask whenever I was around her. The only ways to maintain any kind of relationship with her was to LIE to her and give her the answers she wanted.

She never knew me at all. It some respects I think she realized that but did not care. Like many xtians the mask is more important than the person underneath.

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#6 D Laurier

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206 posts

Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :music

Posted 28 November 2006 - 06:58 PM
Yes, Constantly,

As a child growing up in government institutions, (dumping grounds for unwanted children).
I was punished with physical (and sexual) violence for even asking to go to the bathroom.

As an adult, I was punished for asking WHY? . This has been my experience.
And the violence of my frequent controlers/masters, has always been especialy savage when I have asked questions.

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#7 R. S. Martin

I do my own thinking
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Interests:learning why people believe what they do and normal stuff like birds, dogs and music
Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :I have yet to see the evidence

Posted 28 November 2006 - 07:19 PM

truth, on Nov 28 2006, 05:35 PM, said:

RubySera,

I am sorry you were treated so badly. I was always given the token answer and for the most part this satisfied me, I mean if my family and pastors were saying this was so it must be right..right..NOT..


Unfortunately for me, that did not satisfy me in the least. It had to make sense and it didn't. Thus, the answers more often than not only stimulated more urgent questions. That's when they would refuse answers. When I got older and refused to accept this refusal I was accused of not having enough faith.

Thanks for your note of sympathy. I think that was the single greatest abuse I suffered. It seems so harmless yet is so oppressive.

Quote

Dave said:

I was kicked out of catholic school, in the second grade, for asking questions. Even then I was an Atheist and didn't believe any of the stories they were trying to force on me.


If the consequences had not been so horrendous I would probably have stood up for my atheism in second grade, too. It was about that time when I was told that Jesus died so we could get to heaven and it made absolutely no sense. That is the lie I had to profess to believe when I was 17 so I could join church. And joining church was necessary if I wanted people to keep on liking me. I mean, if I had not joined like the obedient girl I was supposed to be, the social pressure and guilt trips would have been huge. Then the "sin" and "lost" accusations would have started for real.

Quote

Piprus said:

But when it came to issues of routine, everyday tasks or chores, any response to questioning was often met with "because I said so". I came to just regard that as parenting, and expecting a child to follow everyday expectations, and doing what I was told.


I got the same. But that was different. Sometimes, years later, I could figure out why my parents wanted things done that way. It's the religious thing that was such a huge issue.


I Broke Free, on Nov 28 2006, 06:32 PM, said:

I know where you are coming from Ruby, at least to some extent.

While my mother was not big on attending church, she knew everything about the bible and how to interpret every part of it; a pretty good accomplishment for someone I never actually saw reading the damned thing.

My mother HATED it when I would question her beliefs and try to interject a different perspective. As far as she was concerned it was her job to make my brain an exact copy of hers, any deviation meant that she had failed somehow. To her dying day I put on fake mask whenever I was around her. The only ways to maintain any kind of relationship with her was to LIE to her and give her the answers she wanted.

She never knew me at all. It some respects I think she realized that but did not care. Like many xtians the mask is more important than the person underneath.


You know what, Broke Free, this gives me an idea. She probably hadn't a clue what was in the Bible or what it meant. But she could not afford not knowing so she attacked you instead. I wonder if that is what happened in my case, too. Because I seldom saw my mother reading the Bible until after I did a lot of Bible reading.

When I was younger she was always telling me we do such and such because the Bible says to do it. Maybe that is what stimulated my interest in the Bible. Funny thing was, I never found the stuff she said the Bible said. So I guess it would make sense that our mothers treated us like they did. Still doesn't make it right but at least it makes sense in a wierd sort of way. Yes! you're right on about mom not knowing me or wanting to know me. Okay, you were talking about yourself but that fits me, too. Only she used to pretend she knew me inside out. That was abusive, too, but I think I dealt with that some years ago via self-help books because it's not big for me anymore. It's just the way things are.

Thanks for sharing. There's nothing like knowing another person who went through the same thing and really understands.


D Laurier, on Nov 28 2006, 06:58 PM, said:

Yes, Constantly,

As a child growing up in government institutions, (dumping grounds for unwanted children).
I was punished with physical (and sexual) violence for even asking to go to the bathroom.

As an adult, I was punished for asking WHY? . This has been my experience.
And the violence of my frequent controlers/masters, has always been especialy savage when I have asked questions.


Wow! That sounds even worse than my situation. I hope you have been able to escape that abusive situation by now. That is disrespecting basic human rights.

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#8 Dave

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Location:The Sierra Nevada
Interests:Science.
Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :None what so ever !

Posted 28 November 2006 - 07:40 PM

truth, on Nov 28 2006, 05:35 PM, said:

And Dave, what did you parents say or do when you got kicked out of catholic school at such a young age? For asking questions? Wow. I am so glad I managed to escape going to religious school.

I don't remember my mother saying anything. She had a talk with the priest I got into an argument with on Friday and the next Monday I was in public school. My grades improved too.

The old Catholic bible had several chapters on jesus as a child. One thing he did was stretch a board that his "father", Joseph, had cut too short. I remember arguing that he could not do that. No one could do that.

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#9 dexys midnight runner

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Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :Not Sure

Posted 29 November 2006 - 01:04 AM
I have almost read the entire bible this year and had tons of questions. I have been told that I think too much!! After I told my wife I thought genesis was all myth (garden of eden, noah's ark, tower of babel, etc..), she gave me several booklets of information from answers in genesis. I looked at them but couldn't believe any of what it had to say. I haven't told my family or friends yet of my non belief and don't know if I'm ready yet to face the consequences. But I know that day will come soon. It's getting harder to pretend.

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#10 MeiPassion

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Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :Deist

Posted 29 November 2006 - 02:04 AM
Hey, Ruby sorry you had to go through that. I have nothing but sympathy for you.

Anyways, I was never punished for asking questions. However, I could sense annoyance from my mother and other members from my former church. The answer I would usually get was, "read the bible," but reading the bible only made me ask more questions. I ask simple questions like, "why was it okay for the servents to throw Jezabel out the window just because she slept with many men and worshiped pagan gods?" I mean, I didn't understand why this woman is considered to be "evil." Especially when no one took the time to tell me what "evil" is.

To be honest, I never really believed what being fed to when I was Christian, it was more like accepting it.

Have you ever recieved the "ask God" resposne, Ruby?

Edited by MeiPassion, 29 November 2006 - 02:04 AM.

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#11 R. S. Martin

I do my own thinking
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Location:Ontario, Canada
Interests:learning why people believe what they do and normal stuff like birds, dogs and music
Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :I have yet to see the evidence

Posted 29 November 2006 - 04:24 AM

MeiPassion, on Nov 29 2006, 02:04 AM, said:

Hey, Ruby sorry you had to go through that. I have nothing but sympathy for you.

Anyways, I was never punished for asking questions. However, I could sense annoyance from my mother and other members from my former church. The answer I would usually get was, "read the bible," but reading the bible only made me ask more questions. I ask simple questions like, "why was it okay for the servents to throw Jezabel out the window just because she slept with many men and worshiped pagan gods?" I mean, I didn't understand why this woman is considered to be "evil." Especially when no one took the time to tell me what "evil" is.

To be honest, I never really believed what being fed to when I was Christian, it was more like accepting it.

Have you ever recieved the "ask God" resposne, Ruby?


Perhaps once, in a church I didn't go to all that long. And I thought it was stupid. I had already done my praying. Since God didn't answer I figured the Christians who had all the answers should be able to. Why do they profess to have all the answers if they refuse to answer our simple questions?

Passion, it sure feels good to know another woman (maybe I'm wrong; I am assuming you are a woman) is asking this kind of "simple" question. It's probably complicated because you don't accept the worship of pagan gods and sleeping with many men as evil. Throwing her out the window certainly is violent now that you draw my attention to it.It's just one more of those things I had to accept. I like the way you differentiate between believing and accepting. But yeah, it's an evil sin to condemn people for being evil and sinful if these same people (you and me) and forbidden to know what evil and sin mean. A definition for sin was one of my hang-ups. Thanks for speaking up.

Dexy, welcome. You must be new. I never saw your name before. Stick around. Read some more testimonies. You're not the first and only person who deconverts and then has to find a way to tell spouse, children, parents, or whoever is closest kin.

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#12 AKR

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 07:01 AM

RubySera, on Nov 28 2006, 03:51 PM, said:

I'm sorry if I talk too much about these things. It seems the only way to heal is to talk about them over and over. I'm not even trying for their love anymore. All I'm trying for is to heal and become a whole person like I was before these troubles started.


don't apologize. we're all here for the same thing.


i was never punished. i think the only person i ever asked was my mom, and she would just say things like, "i don't know; you can ask god when you get to heaven." no answers, but no punishment either.

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#13 Amelia

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 08:47 AM

RubySera, on Nov 29 2006, 07:51 AM, said:

But my mother hated, Hated, HATED my questions. She HATED them with a vengeance. I was not allowed to understand. However, I was forced to obey, not accepting the religion was not an option if I wanted them to like me even a tiny little bit. In other words, I was forced to lie, to say "I believe" things that did not make sense to me so it was impossible to believe. But I had to do it anyway. I had to lie so they would like me. I think something died inside of me and it's just starting to come alive again.


Hey Ruby,

Yes, whenever I challenged the bible or Christianity, my father would get mad at me.

It's okay to talk about all of these issues, even if you might have done so before. It's a hard thing dealing with all this shit.

Cheers,
Amelia

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#14 LostOrFound

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 08:57 AM
I was "cautioned" by a couple of more tolerant professors (in Bible College and again in Seminary) that my questions were being viewed as a lack of faith by other profs and that there had even been discussions of expelling me from both. I learned to phrase my questions in more acceptable terms in order to get by.

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#15 Poonis

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Location:Minneapolis, MN
Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :no

Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:18 PM
I remember once being scolded by my fundy mother for saying something rather mundane. About the time the movie 'Twister' came out, a character referred to an F5 as "the finger of god". I reiterated this phrase in the midst of my mother during a particularily unruly storm we were having that night. She said, "don't you EVER say that again, do you understand!?" I must have apparently offended her god.

I chuckle about it now, but as a teenage mind-control bot, she certainly scared me then.

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#16 R. S. Martin

I do my own thinking
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Location:Ontario, Canada
Interests:learning why people believe what they do and normal stuff like birds, dogs and music
Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :I have yet to see the evidence

Posted 29 November 2006 - 06:49 PM

Amelia, on Nov 29 2006, 08:47 AM, said:

Hey Ruby,

Yes, whenever I challenged the bible or Christianity, my father would get mad at me.

It's okay to talk about all of these issues, even if you might have done so before. It's a hard thing dealing with all this shit.

Cheers,
Amelia


Amelia,

Thanks! I know you understand. I remember your horror story about being a pastor's kid and the hell your dad put you through.

Quote

LostOrFound said:

I was "cautioned" by a couple of more tolerant professors (in Bible College and again in Seminary) that my questions were being viewed as a lack of faith by other profs and that there had even been discussions of expelling me from both. I learned to phrase my questions in more acceptable terms in order to get by.


Wow! That sends the shudders up my spine. I'm so GLAD I'm in a much more tolerant seminary. It's okay telling my profs that I don't hold to Christian theology. Since my final stage of deconversion in Sept. (if there is such a thing as "final stage") I felt a need to tell them in order to avoid embarrassing situations in front of the class. A few of my classmates know, too. Here you can see what kind of question I got away with today.

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#17 D Laurier

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Regular Member
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Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :music

Posted 01 December 2006 - 03:43 AM
Thankyou Ruby, I'm all growen up (40 years old this past summer). And in therepy,
(recently learned how to play with crayons),
I'm in a good situation. I live in a clean, safe, apartment. I have a low paying, but enjoyable job working at a chain resturant.

I enjoy life.

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#18 R. S. Martin

I do my own thinking
Senior Member
9,040 posts

Gender:Not Telling
Location:Ontario, Canada
Interests:learning why people believe what they do and normal stuff like birds, dogs and music
Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :I have yet to see the evidence

Posted 02 December 2006 - 01:14 AM

D Laurier, on Dec 1 2006, 03:43 AM, said:

Thankyou Ruby, I'm all growen up (40 years old this past summer). And in therepy,
(recently learned how to play with crayons),
I'm in a good situation. I live in a clean, safe, apartment. I have a low paying, but enjoyable job working at a chain resturant.

I enjoy life.


I am so glad. There is perhaps nothing more encouraging to read than the success stories of people who come out of severely abusive situations and turn out well despite the horrible up-bringing. You sound like one of those. All the best to you.

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#19 Pegasus_Voyager

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Location:Indiana
Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :The

Posted 02 December 2006 - 03:58 AM
As I read through all these horror stories, I can only conclude one thing: That any religion, ideology, or paradigm whatsoever that refuses to allow and field direct, forthright questions, its veracity must be held suspect. Another reason why adherents of this intolerant thinking must be kept from the helm of government.

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#20 R. S. Martin

I do my own thinking
Senior Member
9,040 posts

Gender:Not Telling
Location:Ontario, Canada
Interests:learning why people believe what they do and normal stuff like birds, dogs and music
Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :I have yet to see the evidence

Posted 02 December 2006 - 03:52 PM

Pegasus_Voyager, on Dec 2 2006, 03:58 AM, said:

As I read through all these horror stories, I can only conclude one thing: That any religion, ideology, or paradigm whatsoever that refuses to allow and field direct, forthright questions, its veracity must be held suspect. Another reason why adherents of this intolerant thinking must be kept from the helm of government.


Agreed! Thanks for your feedback.


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I think of a young online friend of mine, who has been raised to believe in God and Hell. I feel very sad when I think of her life. She is trying to make sense of the world, of her life, of what her biological parents and relatives are telling her. But it doesn't make sense, so because of that and many other things which are causing pain, she is self-harming and depressed.