May 27, 2005 Chat with Ocean

Excerpts, with very minor edits mostly to facilitate reading

Ocean says:
my internet didnt work all day
steve says:
oh
steve says:
how did u feel about that
Ocean says:
well, i need to tell u bout something else
Ocean says:
i had a weird convo with my mom where i just blurted things out.... but not about us talking just other stuff...
steve says:
ok
Ocean says:
like i feel hated and i just want to leave...
steve says:
hug
Ocean says:
hug...
steve says:
go on...
Ocean says:
and... like... i dont know.. *she* probably wont stop me, will just guilt -trip me.... she kept doing that and at the same time saying how she doesnt want to me feel guilty.... guilt-tripping is her language....
Ocean says:
and i asked her not to tell my dad... and shes like i dont really have a choice, i have to... or something like that...
Ocean says:
and then i told her the truth that that wud make me feel terrified and if she does that im likely to commit suicide...
Ocean says:
and then later in the convo im like "ur not going to tell him r u?" shes like "well i dont have a choice do i" and i was about 60% sure that she meant her only choice was not to tell... but she wudnt say it normally... but finally she did say she wudnt tell...
Ocean says:
and now im really terrified of her telling my dad
steve says:
hug
Ocean says:
and i feel really really really guilty....
Ocean says:
hug...
steve says:
how come u feel guilty
Ocean says:
i kept saying that i honestly just feel guilty about eating there food and staying there and shes like "well, how do u think i wud feel if u left? do u think it is normal for me to not know where u r?"... i dunno, her emotions scare me
steve says:
my mom used to do that "how do u think i feel?" too
steve says:
her feeligns pretty much always had to be more important
Ocean says:
i was gonna type "now i feel guilty like in front of u... somehow... i have this fear that u somehow realize that my parents arent all that bad..."
steve says:
?????
steve says:
why would i think that!
Ocean says:
im weird... my brain is having a guilt-fest....
steve says:
i think ur parents are whacked
steve says:
no, i take that back
steve says:
i know they are
Ocean says:
well, my brain is still having a guilt\anxiety fest....
steve says:
they have all but killed u
steve says:
ur barely alive there ocean
steve says:
they have got u so trained to feel guilty
steve says:
to feel afraid
steve says:
it ticks me off
steve says:
to put it mildly
steve says:
hug
Ocean says:
im so glad im talking to u now... u make me feel so normal about this
Ocean says:
hug
steve says:
hug
steve says:
k lets look at each thing ur mom said
steve says:
can we?
Ocean says:
yeah i have more stuff that is weird to me i kinda wanna tell u... but ok
steve says:
ok u go first then
Ocean says:
yeah... my mom basically said she has no idea how my dad may have hurt me... and that she said to my dad that it is worse for her, cuz she knows how she hurt me (see, there is where i feel guilty... she tries... rather incompentantly... to fix things).... and my dad according to her has never hurt me, so she said to him that is why she suffers more... and she says my dad racks his mind trying to figure out how he hurt me... and she says he cudnt have cuz hes never around me...
Ocean says:
but first of all its beyond obvious to me that when im around him, in the rare occasions he talks to me its worse verbal abuse... and second of all,
Ocean says:
remember that thing i told u about that happened when i was 3?
steve says:
about spanking u or something
Ocean says:
yeah... well my mom was *there*...
steve says:
what do u mean
Ocean says:
when he hit me when i was 3
steve says:
u mean she just watched it?...what happened?
Ocean says:
after he did that she was there and walking around and i think she was like berating him for doing that....
Ocean says:
but still, she wud have remembered it...
Ocean says:
i know she was there at some point during it...
Ocean says:
but most of it is blanked out... i only remember the beginning i told u, and the end where my mom is... and im walking around crying...

I've removed the next part of the chat because I am afraid it will really embarrass and anger her father, but I will show it to any authorities who ask me about it.

Then Ocean continues...

Ocean says:
...anyway, i wanna say that 1) i may be able to leave earlier than my 18th birthday somehow... it no longer is out of the question completelty 2) my dad may find out about something like me wanting to leave and i might die.......
Ocean says:
and im having a guilt-fest. so i feel odd.
Ocean says:
hug.
steve says:
hug
steve says:
tell me exactly what u feel guilty about
Ocean says:
i think its closer to fear now....
Ocean says:
i think my dad might find out about me wanting to leave and trap me in my room somehow and say stuff to me and i will either attempt suicide or attack him and it wont work and ill be in really bad emotional pain.... and like my mom right now is really really sad and if i ask her about it she'll say she isnt, and that i didnt say anything bad, and that shes just tired.... but i know that under the right circumstances she'll just go ahead and tell me i dont care about anybody other than my self that im responsible for her being suicidal, she'll probably say stuff like that her and my dads lives will be miserable when i leave... or something....and then if i bring it up somehow like a few weeks later she'll say she didnt mean it....
Ocean says:
and that she never judged me or anything (i actually kept saying i felt judged... and stuff...)... and that i shouldnt feel guilty or say "im sorry". i say that compulsively to her........ it bugs her...yeah... so i feel guilty.
steve says:
k tell me again why u feel guilty cuz its not that clear to me yet, or to u i dont think either!
steve says:
try to list the reasons....
Ocean says:
i think im just afraid.
Ocean says:
but i dont want to feel afraid.
Ocean says:
so i go kinda "ill make it so i have nothing to fear by making my parents or at least my mom not hate me"
Ocean says:
fine, im just afraid.
Ocean says:
basically im trying hard to be harmless and feel like i m inherently harmful and so i feel guilt...
steve says:
hey before i forget do u have an email address for ur ex therapist
Ocean says:
maybe...
Ocean says:
ill look...
Ocean says:
cant find it...
Ocean says:
i have her phone # somewhere
steve says:
ok could u ask her if u could email her? so u can start documenting things more with her.
Ocean says:
yeah... ok... why?
steve says:
for the emancipation thing
steve says:
my guess is that once ur parents find out that ur serious they will just leave then
steve says:
and try to make u feel guilty
steve says:
and unwanted
steve says:
and rejected
Ocean says:
no... not the last two... sadly...
Ocean says:
i think id feel happy if i was *completely* rejected....
steve says:
its hard to tell how they will react when they find out ur serious, or thats what i think anyhow,
Ocean says:
yeah
steve says:
but we need to concentrate on ur feelings
steve says:
it will all change once u get out of there
steve says:
and get away from them and have time to really reflect on everything and talk
Ocean says:
i feel very anxious right now...
steve says:
can u say what ur scared of
Ocean says:
pain. death. confinement.
Ocean says:
mostly pain and confinement... which makes pain.
Ocean says:
pain.
Ocean says:
being around my parents.
Ocean says:
them hating me. yeah.
steve says:
k can u try to say which one or two ur most afraid of
Ocean says:
me being in the same room as my parents when they hate me.
steve says:
yeah
steve says:
hug
Ocean says:
hug
steve says:
or lets say when u feel hated by them
steve says:
no one can argue with that
steve says:
or if they do u can nail them with invalidation!
Ocean says:
yeah...
steve says:
im thinking like a lawyer now a bit!
steve says:
i want to help u make a case for emancipation
steve says:
and id like us to get u out of there and help others get out
steve says:
and learn from how we did it and how u did it
steve says:
and what the whole process is like

a little later..

Ocean says:
ok, so right now i still wud want to either emancipate myself right now before i put any more effort into hs.... or emancipate myself after i graduate, which at earliest cud happened by xmas... but maybe not.

later..

steve says:
have u ever written a letter to ur mom?
Ocean says:
yeah i have.
steve says:
how did that go over
steve says:
and how many times have u done it
Ocean says:
um... it was a stupid mistake... thats how i feel...
steve says:
how come
Ocean says:
i was typing this big long thing but i think it doesnt really matter
Ocean says:
cuz basically the letter didnt say anything.... i guess, emotion related... i was just very emotionally trying to convince her of something... it made me feel like crap...
Ocean says:
i was typing this
Ocean says:
it was for a stupid reason: i wanted to go on this school trip to china. my parents, first of all r paranoid, second didnt belive it was in any way educational, just stupid fun, cuz to them all good education is boring... and i tried really hard to convince her
Ocean says:
it *was* like one of those letters ur thinking of...
Ocean says:
just over something more or less trivial...
Ocean says:
nevermind. grr.
steve says:
how would u feel about me helping u write another one? and giving a copy to ur ex therapist?
steve says:
i d like to start documenting things.
Ocean says:
yeah... do u think tho, that when the court asks me what i want to do where i want to go, they wud think my decision not mature?
steve says:
i feel optimistic about getting u emancipated. like 8. how optimistic do u feel.
Ocean says:
i feel... maybe a 4.

Ocean says:
what about the fact i was in psych hospital...
steve says:
and also i was going to say that if u started working part time to save money it would be good preparation
steve says:
i think that helps ur case - the hospital thing
steve says:
thats ur whole case really
steve says:
that it is not mentally healthy for u to stay there
Ocean says:
yeah... ok work wud help, cuz i dont know if theyd emancipate me without a job
steve says:
ur terrified of ur own father
steve says:
what else does a judge to know!
Ocean says:
i told everyone at the psych hospital that
Ocean says:
they didnt care
Ocean says:
they made me tell my parents i was afraid...
steve says:
have u seen ur hospital records
steve says:
the docs notes?
Ocean says:
no...
steve says:
can u get them?
Ocean says:
yeah...
steve says:
k do that
Ocean says:
i feel really pessimistic.
steve says:
hug
Ocean says:
hug...
steve says:
im here to encourage u and support u my friend
Ocean says:
thanks...
steve says:
i will stick through this with u
steve says:
i want to do it
steve says:
i really really want to
steve says:
if u dont fight me we can do it!
Ocean says:
ok... smile... hug...
steve says:
k
steve says:
some pple have fought me when i tried to help them
steve says:
so thats why i said that
Ocean says:
k...
steve says:
how much do u trust me ocean
steve says:
zero to ten
Ocean says:
8-10...
steve says:
k what if anything else could i do to get more trust
Ocean says:
id have to know u in real life to trust u more... and i cant really think of anything else...
steve says:
k
steve says:
well lets make a todo list
steve says:
can we?
Ocean says:
yeah
steve says:
k what r gonna put on it?
Ocean says:
um... call my therapist...
steve says:
k
steve says:
what else
Ocean says:
research more stuff on emancipation...
steve says:
what else
steve says:
and how do u feel about me asking these what else questions!?
Ocean says:
hmm... wud it make any sense to email this guy... since hes apparently such a hippy http://www.hippielawyer.com/
steve says:
hang on ill look
steve says:
but first make sure u put on ur list get hospital records
Ocean says:
i feel... pretty positive but im not sure how, thru my anxiety..
steve says:
ok well weve got a good todo list so far... so we can talk about ur fears more. but first one more thing. add to contact that org in washington
steve says:
freechild?
Ocean says:
yeah, i have it bookmarked
steve says:
k can u email them still tonight?
steve says:
well ill leave it up to u when u do all this stuff
Ocean says:
ok...
steve says:
how about each time we talk we go over the todo list?
Ocean says:
i think that wud help me
steve says:
make a bit of progress each day.....in 3 months we will have done a lot!
Ocean says:
i wud feel less stressed... i think.....
steve says:
k
steve says:
its always good to have a plan too
steve says:
u said something once i dont think ill ever forget
steve says:
it was something like i actually feel good about my plans in life for once, and i found someone who could call me ocean
steve says:
well ok i forgot exactly how u said it!
Ocean says:
yeah... smile.
steve says:
but i remember i realized i can make a real difference in ur life
steve says:
a huge difference
steve says:
maybe even save ur life
steve says:
and in other teens lives too
Ocean says:
"wow, my life is actually going ok. 1) im not so stressed about my future 2) i found someone who sounds like he really loves me 3) i got somebody to call me ocean"
steve says:
how the hell did u find that so fast?
Ocean says:
i remembered it...
steve says:
lol
steve says:
hug
Ocean says:
i dont remember exactly either, tho
Ocean says:
hug...
steve says:
ur something else
steve says:
a good something else i mean!
Ocean says:
ok... thanks... lol.
steve says:
ok so...
steve says:
let me think.....
steve says:
i d really like to see u start writing ur mom on a regular basis. train her to respond in writing
steve says:
writing is less scary
steve says:
agree?
steve says:
and we can talk about her exact words
steve says:
and plan ours
Ocean says:
u mean... have her write back to me?
steve says:
yeah
Ocean says:
only if i am not living there... ... im sorry... i dont like talking to her... im freaking out kinda... it makes me feel terrified and nauseaus somehow...
Ocean says:
i mean, not about seriosu stuff
steve says:
hug
Ocean says:
hug...
steve says:
ok but thats my point. talking to her is scary
steve says:
writing is less scary
Ocean says:
yeah...
steve says:
did ur therapist have u write practice, unsent letters to ur parents
Ocean says:
i think she wanted to but i didnt or we didnt get around to it...
steve says:
and what was the thing about u telling them u are afraid of them. sounds like u were pressured or forced to do that to their faces. which seems a bit uncool
Ocean says:
i cant decide now cuz im in a weird mood. i might. but right now im a scaredy-cat mode.
Ocean says:
sorry...
steve says:
cant decide what
steve says:
and hug
Ocean says:
hug... cant decide whether i will write my mom letters...
steve says:
and its okay to be scared.... plus once u said i dont want to be scared and thats kind of self invalidating
steve says:
oh ok
steve says:
well could we write a practice one?
steve says:
that u dont have to send?
Ocean says:
that wud be hard to do.
steve says:
how come
Ocean says:
well... i dont have anything i need to say to her... i dont want to say anyhting, other than "im going to get emancipated, if u dont consent to it, i will get emancipated on grounds that denying it wud be harmful, and that wud work"
Ocean says:
and in the middle of typing that i realized
Ocean says:
that i do want to say stuff, thats why i blurt it out, and why i whine about it to others....
steve says:
yeah
steve says:
theres a lot to say hun
steve says:
a lot
Ocean says:
i dont want to hear her imagined reply.
steve says:
lets try something...
steve says:
can we?
Ocean says:
yeah
steve says:
try to finish this sentence
steve says:
mom id like u to apologize for.......
steve says:
just say whatever pops into mind
Ocean says:
i dont want her to apoligize. to be honest. then i feel guilty.
Ocean says:
i never want to hear "im sorry" coming out of her
Ocean says:
i usually say im sorry
Ocean says:
if she says im sorry that gives her a moral leg up and gives her the right to hurt me...
steve says:
what if she really meant it
Ocean says:
but she always sounds like she does.
steve says:
and if she really felt bad for hurting u
Ocean says:
completely sounds like she does.
steve says:
but i can tell the way she says it is in a manipulative way
Ocean says:
and, she does feel hurt. shes just somehow stupid... or really really crazy....
steve says:
she doesnt want to be forgiven
Ocean says:
she does.
Ocean says:
she asked for it.
Ocean says:
i cant.
steve says:
hmm
steve says:
i thought she wanted ur sympathy
steve says:
r u sure she really wants to be forgiven
steve says:
and can she forgive herself?
Ocean says:
no, im not sure. im never sure. thats why i dont want to be around her.
steve says:
lol
steve says:
hug
Ocean says:
hug...
steve says:
would u like to someday have a better R with her
steve says:
relationship that is
Ocean says:
see, it was in exactly *this kind* of discussion that the person at the psych hospital said i was antidependant...
steve says:
lol
Ocean says:
no, i doubt a relationship with her wud work. i cant possibly imagine it working
Ocean says:
maybe if i saw her once a year.
steve says:
lol
Ocean says:
and then it wud still.... i dont know i just dont want her and my dad and my life to exist....... uhhhhh i feel like crap.
steve says:
has she ever hugged u when ur crying? or like in the past 5 years?
Ocean says:
yeah... i didnt want her too...
Ocean says:
she kept saying stop crying.... stop crying... and then cheerfully, like she always does when im upset "lets go downstairs and drink tea"
Ocean says:
and whats wrong...
steve says:
if she would shut up and just let u cry, then would u want her to hug u?
Ocean says:
no, i dont wanna be touched by her tho... thats actually the main thing but i brought up the other thing cuz understand taht stuff
steve says:
ok
Ocean says:
i feel like an evil person.
steve says:
lol
steve says:
hug
Ocean says:
hug...
steve says:
theres a reason for all ur feelings Ocean
steve says:
ur not evil
steve says:
how come u feel evil
Ocean says:
cuz i can imagine ppl thinking, and im thinking it too, that not wanting to be touched by ur own mother... makes u evil... hating ur mother makes u evil... not wanting to be touched by ppl makes u evil
steve says:
if a guy raped u would u want him to touch u later?
steve says:
see my point?
Ocean says:
yeah... but a part of me is saying that my mother never did anythign wrong...
steve says:
and we've already seen how ur mom psychologically rapes u
steve says:
like how she comes in ur room and sits down. we said thats like being violated. so we are talking about very similar things
steve says:
but they are closing here
steve says:
ull be okay O
steve says:
i believe in u
steve says:
i feel optimistic
steve says:
i really do
steve says:
did u make ur todo list on paper
Ocean says:
yeah
steve says:
k
Ocean says:
hug...
steve says:
then lets talk tm or email me if we dont
Ocean says:
hug hug hug hug.....
steve says:
hug back
steve says:
Ocean ur doing so well
steve says:
u really are
steve says:
im proud of u
steve says:
can i say that
steve says:
or is it patronizing or something
Ocean says:
no... its ok its nice...
steve says:
k
steve says:
hug
steve says:
ur making progress
steve says:
praise progress
Ocean says:
i really need ur support right now...
steve says:
remember those two words
steve says:
praise progress
Ocean says:
ok
steve says:
how ever small it seems
steve says:
i love u o
steve says:
we can do this
Ocean says:
smile...
steve says:
and we will help others later
Ocean says:
i love u steve...
steve says:
and ur helping me at the same time
steve says:
thanks
steve says:
hug
steve says:
ok ive got to go hun!
Ocean says:
ok...
steve says:
k
steve says:
huge hug
steve says:
and tight squeeze
steve says:
im glad we talked
steve says:
ive missed u!
Ocean says:
*huge hug back...*
steve says:
i was sleepy when u signed on and now im wide awake!
steve says:
lol
steve says:
k im going!
steve says:
*blows u kiss*
Ocean says:
k... love u... bye
steve says:
k
steve says:
xxoo
Ocean says:
*blows kiss* lol
--

Note: I debated taking out the ending since some people might think it suggests a romantic relationship, but I decided to leave it in since to me it shows we have a loving friendship relationship, not a romantic or sexual one. If it is illegal for me to say "blows you a kiss", "hug", "hun" or even to say "I love you" to a teen, please someone let me know. And by the way, I send hugs to lots of teens and they send hugs to me and each other. If anyone chats with teens for a little while they will see this quickly. It is the norm, not the exception when chatting with teens.